Rules query (template weapon damage and spiritual bond)

We did another "last minute" demo-demogame with Lemm today and admittedly it went smoother than our previous games. Lemm played with my starter-Ospendale and me with my starter-Rashaar. We played "Fight for the Fragment", I lost due to a) once again using water deployment (which is a bit of a no-no when playing in 165ish point games) and not getting my second Ugdru-Rashaar on the table at any point of the game.. *sigh* b) forgetting how bloody quick the docs are.

Anyway, there rose during gameplay 2 issues:

1) When firing Cannon of Despair and getting the template on top of multiple targets, does one roll only a single 1d5 for damage which applies to each of the targets touching the template or does one roll 1d5 for damage for each model under the template?

2) When a model being controlled by Spiritual Bond kills a model, does he gain Karma in the regular way (so as to be better able to resist the pull of Spiritual Bond)?

3) When a model is being controlled by Spiritual Bond tries to break free by spending Karma in the beginning of his activation and actually succeeds in it, the controller cannot control him anymore and the controlled model gets a Stun counter... BUT... is the model considered then to be Activated so as its original owner cannot activate it anymore during the same Round?

As a sidenote, I was on the receiving end of the battle, Lemm rolled 9s and 10s for damage on the Cannon of Despair and his view was that each model should be rolled for damage separately whilst I said that each of my models should take 5 points of damage. When my Ugdru-Rashaar (being controlled by Lemm's Plague Doctor) killed my Magi-Rashaar in close combat, Lemm thought that the Ugdru-Rashaar should get the 3 Karma whilst I said that he probably wouldn't get any... him being controlled and all that... and killing your own boss probably doesn't do good for your Karma in the classical sense either. I also said that breaking free of the Spiritual Bond would lose the model's activation for the Round, but Lemm's interpretation was more benevolent.

It's always good to be floored by a good sport. :D

25 jul 12

Hi Silveri,

Here are the answers to your questions:

1) You roll once, and apply the same result to all the models.
2) No. In normal conditions, when you take down a foe your ego and spirit is raised (and here's where the Karma point comes from). If you are under the control of another character, whatever you do doesn't go in line with your spirit original intentions, so you won't get a Karma point back for killing anyone.
3) No. The model is free, and other than receiving the Stun counter, he return to the control of the original squad.

I hope that helps!

31 jul 12

Couple of questions arose during the demos regarding the rules. I'll post them here as I remember them. Unfortunately I didn't write them down as they arose.

Mother Hydra's Claws. It seems that this spell haunts me with interpretation problems. 1) I assume one needs to assign a primary target for this spell before rolling? 2) How does this spell work if the target is in cover? 3) Suppose I roll 3 Aces, the primary target is in the open, as is one other model, but a third one is in cover, but there is still line of sight and 4" distance to the primary target - does the third model also get full damage? 4) Continuing the previous example, there's a fourth model within reach of the spell's scatter, but the caster has no Line of Sight and is also in cover, can the spell affect him also? 5) when cast by Magi-Rashaar and getting 3 Aces (and damaging 3 models), does the Magi-Rashaar gain 1 or 3 Karma points (plus extra if he manages to kill somebody)?

(my rulings-on-the-spot were 1) yes, 2) as per shooting 3) scattering ignores cover 4) the hidden models is safe and 5) 3 Karma, but I'd like to know the official ruling)

Spirit Cannon. Cannon of Perdition: it's bloody hard to accomplish anything with this. Sure, you can boost it with 4 Karma (aim+regular boost), but as the opponent can boost his Protection with Karma, getting at least 5 Aces (and thus dealing damage) is a bit more than 6%... less chance than getting a critical on the Destiny Die. Sure, it drains Karma fast from the opponent, but the this pea-shooter version rarely accomplishes anything. Have I interpreted this correctly?
Cannon of Despair: Shooting costs 1 AP and 1 KP, shooting cannot be boosted with Karma. You roll the blast scatter with only the Destiny Die and if you roll a Critical, somebody will get a Stun counter (but whom, if the direction isn't toward a specific model?), but the template will most likely miss the intended target? The models under the template get to roll Dexterity (usually were Hybrids and got 2-ish successes), but as the damage is only 1d5, and the target can roll to avoid the damage as per p.45 in the rules. Again, bloody difficult to do anything, unless targets are stunned and wounded. Have I interpreted this correctly? Cannon of Derangement seems to be the only logical choice in this context for the Arsenale Docs.

Water. Do models (Ugdru-Rashaar specifically) get cover bonus for shooting whilst being in a Canal? Does water protect from Flames damage? Also, it would cool if Rashaar would have an attack that would be able to pull a foe into water if the foe was within 1" of a canal's edge and the rashaar in water - 1 AP, opposed Dexterity roll, attacker wins ties?

I apologize for having to nitpick on these, but I have a background of organizing tournaments of miniature games and know how frustrating rule misinterpretations can be. Also, I'll probably be the local "rules guy" with Carnevale. Also, in demoing I've found that it's ok to consult the rule book on unusual events, but when there's no answer or the answer isn't clear, it's bad PR for the game and takes away credibility.

31 jul 12

Sorry, never do probability math when under influence of alcohol (remember this kids!) forgot to multiply by possible combinations. The possibility of getting at least 5 Aces on 9d10 is 26.6%, not 6%. Still low, but better than relying on the crit alone.

02 ago 12

I will try to answer you the Mother Hidra´s Claws as i understand the spell, and the Magi rule.

As you asked:
1) I assume one needs to assign a primary target for this spell before rolling?

I think there is no need to do that. I don´t see the relevance of choosing the first before or after the magic roll. I mean, if you choose the primary target before, it´s ok. Then, for each Ace over the first, pick up another one.

2) How does this spell work if the target is in cover?

As if the target were out of cover. The cover rules affects the shooting roll, not the "spell roll". That´s like, if you shoot, the cover makes you harder to hit, but the Claw´s of Mother Hidra will seek the objective and tear it up because of it´s awesomeness!!!. :D

COOVER RULE:
A character benefits from Cover when he’s position way that a pieces of scenery stands between it and the its attacker. In terms of game: if the attacker’s Line of Sight crosses some scenery item on the way to the target, the target benefits from Cover. In the case of explosions and similar effects, Cover will only have effect if it stands between the center of the explosion (that is, the center of the circular template) and the target. Scenery items
often have certain theses modify the shooter’s roll. These characteristics are grouped into two categories. Modifiers from the two categories stack.

3) Suppose I roll 3 Aces, the primary target is in the open, as is one other model, but a third one is in cover, but there is still line of sight and 4" distance to the primary target - does the third model also get full damage?

If the target is on line of sight as the spell rule sais, it can be damaged. And all the targets get the full damage, which is the Aces on the spell roll.

Mother Hidra´s Claws:
Effect. The Caster may choose a one target within Line of Sight for each Ace obtained in his Magic roll. Every target will be hit by a missile made from magic energy; the victim will suffer as many levels of Spiritual Damage as Aces obtained in the Magic roll. The Caster can’t pick the same target more than once. Besides, each chosen target beyond the first must be at most within 6’’ from the other targets; all missiles which are not assigned to a target are lost.

4) Continuing the previous example, there's a fourth model within reach of the spell's scatter, but the caster has no Line of Sight and is also in cover, can the spell affect him also?

As the spell rule sais, if the caster has no line of site, the target is safe.^^

5) when cast by Magi-Rashaar and getting 3 Aces (and damaging 3 models), does the Magi-Rashaar gain 1 or 3 Karma points (plus extra if he manages to kill somebody)?

The rule of the Magi sais that he gain a Karma for tagert which have been damaged, so for the example of three targets (i asume three Aces on the Spell Roll) he can gain up to 3 points of Karma, depending of the rules of the targets (for example: Spiritual Protection). But it will be almost ever 3 points, not many characters have Spiritual Protection(3), ¿right?. ;P

(I remark the important point of the rule which answer your question)
Soul absortion: The Magi-Rashar recover 1 Karma point for each time he inflicts at least to an enemy character as a result of a spell or a close combat attack.

With the other questions, i cannot say something about the Spiritual Cannon because (althought i have read it) i haven´t used or confronted with Hospedale.

The special movement of the Rashaar, What says that you cannot develope a new action. ;). If you don´t want to, you can always use the Push special movement (just determine that the direction is to yourself, the water i mean), but you must be in contact to do so.

I hope i could have helped you.

05 ago 12

Hi guys,

I'm sorry, I've been away for a while, and I'll be unavailable for a few weeks from now on... but I didn't want to leave without taking care of this...

Silveri, you're treating the Claws as a shooting attack. It is not, it is a magic missile (if you've ever played Dungeons and Dragons you'll know what I mean). You just choose a target in LOS and roll, so no cover applies.

On the cannons... I usually play with my cannon of despair and I kick some serious ass with it. Since it is a template weapon with the Flames special ability it is quite possible that you can cripple quite a few enemies in one shot. It is not a game finisher, but that's never been the intention (with anything in the rules, actually). So... at the end of the day it depends on how you play your options.

Now on water... not, at this moment there's no special protection against anything. We didn't want to fall into the "complication" trap, and water would deserve five pages of rules alone at least (and this is totally against the spirit of this game). In any case, you're right, they probably deserve some extra detailing, and we've been thinking about that for a while. We are working on a few extra surprises for the future, so we might take another look to the water.

In any case, you came out with the best definition for this game. Tongue in cheek adventures. The rules are simple because that's how they are designed to be, but that might lead to some indefinite moments here and there. Just move on, and don't let the rules get in the way of your fun.

05 ago 12

Perfectly satisfactory responses (although I still think that Claws of Mother Hydra is way underpriced at 10 points when compared to, say, spiritual bond or kraken's breath), but it can be house-ruled to 20 points cost in our games.

Now... to counter the claws, hiding would probably be the best option, but I'm not sure whether I've understood the rules correcly... One has to first move into cover with 1 AP and then stop and spend 1 AP to get the hide bonus? Unfortunately the cost has lead to avoiding hiding in our games and most of our movement is done by running. Perhaps the hide manouver would allow to move at half-speed? (again, this could also be house-ruled).

Rules query (template weapon damage and spiritual bond)

Silveri

The Duke

Silveri

Silveri

ubersoldat

The Duke

Silveri