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The Masked Minstrel enters Venice - a new player with a new project [Venice in Hirst Arts W.I.P]

Link to this post 20 Jun 12

Hi guys, I'm Peter from Australia and very recently getting into Carvnevale. I love my skirmish games and was initially doubtful of a new system but the theme of Carnevale really caught me, the sculpt of the Plague Doctor drew me, and the most important thing I consider in any skirmish game (The opposed roll) was to be found in the 'At the Ready' rule, and I was sold!
Let it be noted that I am a big Lovecraftian fan and the draw of the Cult of Dagon is just too too cool.

Got my first batch of figures coming in via courier from the only distributor I could find in Australia - The Guild Starter, The Patricians Starter, a mandatory yet unaccompanied Plague Doctor :P and some extras for the two factions.

Now I have a project, it is ambitious but very cool if I pull it off.

Alright, its not much right now, but it is a start :P
That is an off-cut board I got from my local Bunnings for $1 and measures up at 72.2cm x 70.2cm which I shall create a Venice style board using Hirst Arts plaster molds.

The board will be themed for my two starter factions, A dockside slum area for The Guild, and some elevated fancy buildings for The Patricians with a mix of marketplace in between.
I'm drawing visual aids from the game Assassin's Creed 2 which I have taken some pics of, and am confident I can recreate a similar thing using Hirst Arts.

I'm awaiting some more molds specific to this project which I have ordered and hopefully should receive in a couple days time :)
In the meanwhile I shall be planning out a basic layout on the board, and pump out the relevant moulds that I currently own.
An advantage the rules of Carnevale have over other games systems is that because of the advanced movement options, the terrain you make doesn't have to be as practical so you can create really claustrophobic alleyways etc, but will still need to plan out 'climbable' heights for characters to scale.
As a guideline, for more cumbersome characters, 2 inches seems a nice height for 'steps' as in climbing upon barrels etc.
More nimble characters can Assassin's Creed it and are likely to be able to scale a 4" height reliably.
I'll keep that in mind for elevations.

Here are some inspiration pics (not my own works, but I will be doing similar)

Link to this post 20 Jun 12

Your inspiration looks fantastic, I especially like how the inside of those buildings is spacey enough that you can fit models inside. Its cool that you are taking the movement rules into account when you get to designing your buildings, that will be a blast to have your minis interacting with the terrain. I look forward to watching how this takes shape.

Link to this post 20 Jun 12

Wow, those buildings look so good. Huge and awesome.

Good luck with the project and welcome to the Carnevale world.^^

Link to this post 21 Jun 12

Thanks for the comments guys, just letting you know that I found that pic of W.I.P for some guys 40k Venice style cityfight table, while it looks really nice I'm not sure how spacious my version will be.
While I do want to create some nice room to be able to move models about I still need to keep the height manageable for figures to climb.

Here is a very basic concept of what I mean by climbing difficulties, I came up with the numbers by looking at the range of Dexterity values the characters have, generally ranging from 3-6.
Now, I suck at maths and probability compared with multiple dice etc, but to me a character with a Dex of 3 has a decent chance to reliably climb a 1 Inch object and so so for 2 Inches (not taking a critical success or failure chance), where a character with Dex of 6 could probably get a 3 Inch obstacle with so so chance for 4 Inches.
With Criticals, it is possible for a Dex 6 to fluff an easy climb, and for an uncoordinated madman to scale a much more difficult height, but with both chances being 1-in-10 for a crit, I will discount that for now and keep to reliable heights, when a crit occurs it will be an element of surprise that adds to the fun of the game.
Here is a basic idea of how I will implement the different terrain heights.

Here is a link to my Japanese terrain for Anima Tactics and Bushido, I am taking a different approach though this time to creating buildings.
Instead of building the buildings each level of bricks upwards, I will build the walls seperate with the advantage of leaving a wall section unglued so that it can be removed to access the inside.
Admitted as soon as I saw the theme for Carnevale and decided to create terrain, I wanted to make a ballroom :P
Maybe it has something to do with the game PRIMAL on ps2 :P
http://hirstarts.yuku.com/topic/5990/My-Japanese-themed-Terrain?page=3

Link to this post 21 Jun 12

Also I should note, that if this project succeeds (and I see little possibility for complete failure, maybe some teething issues or practicality issues), that anyone will be able to do the same.
All it takes is the same moulds I will be using, learning to cast plaster which really isn't as difficult or daunting as it sounds which I found it personally, and a combination of patience / hardwork - sometimes I find it a chore to pump out plaster casts en-masse, some days it just comes naturally.
Definitely practice and getting more efficient with casting speeds up the process and productivity of it.

Link to this post 21 Jun 12

Hi Masked Minstrel, welcom to Carnevale

about the possibility of any character to climb, you must take into account the number of PA of each one. because you can use more than one PA to climb.
for example, if one character has Dex x 6 and 2 PA, can use two PA to climb, and it's more easy to reach high places. like a character with dex x 4, and 3 PA, he can use the 3 PA to reach the same place.

(sorry for my bad english :D )

Link to this post 21 Jun 12

Hi BakjaK and thank you twofold, for the welcome and secondly for the hint about climbing, this is exactly the kind of constructive criticism I was hoping for, especially seeing that I am very new to this game and am still early into this project so I haven't started any building yet other than getting lots of plaster casts happening.


Reading through the rules, (quick check in pdf), yes, you are right that characters can spend multiple AP's on climbing to successfully reach an area. When I was planning out the heights I didn't take that into account.
This allows me more freedom with my buildings.


For Example:
The Dex6/2AP character succeeds in his climb with 1 AP, he can then prepare himself with an 'At the Ready' action.
Where as the Dex4/3AP character might roll really bad and end up spending 2AP's to make the same climb, only to reach the top and about to attack the other character before copping a pointblank Pistol shot to the face.
Thats what I really like about the rules of Carnevale, climbing distances, running distances etc are not a static guaranteed number - I think that randomness based on Dex really adds a nice dimension to the game.


Now I can make my buildings with more diversity, as long as I have proper landings for the characters to stop at, so lots of racing across rooftops, leaping from balcony to balcony, all that fun stuff :)
My moulds should arrive tomorrow, two notable ones - the Gothic Church mould and The Belltower mould, these will be very nice indeed.


Any other suggestions for what I could include would be greatly appreciated, as it stands I'm pretty much looking to recreate one area from Assassin's Creed 2 that I really like, and yet somehow include a mini Ballroom :P

Link to this post 22 Jun 12

One more thing about create rooftops and balcony. be sure that your roof inclination does not cause minis sideslip. if you roof have more inclination you can throw sand with white glue before painting to increase the roughness.

The balconies must allow two miniatures in it. to allow the fights, but, it will be the best place for an unattainable shooter.

Link to this post 25 Jun 12

Pics of work in progress.

Belltower with figure for scale and placement position for climbing

Bridge sides

Did some planning with the wife a layout for my Ballroom for the Patricians

Link to this post 26 Jun 12

That is really nice. Tower looks fantastic, love that you can fit minis on it at different levels. Ballroom floor looks beautiful. It would be sweet if you could get a to scale piano on that!

Link to this post 26 Jun 12

Some more planning progress of the Patrician's Ball Room - stacking up walls to see how they would look - I had some unfinished walls of the Bell Tower handy so I tried them out as wall designs and they look nice.
Now some plans I have is to include:
A Grand-ish stair way leading up to the second story circle that looks down upon the ballroom with a couple of balconies looking over the city.
I've ordered some bigger and stronger magnets for a modular dungeon project I'm doing on the side when I have some spare time, so I'm thinking of magnetizing some walls or upper story floor to allow removal of it for ease of moving figures - the magnets themselves won't be strong enough to hold up the level by themselves, so the design will use part of the window/door arches as a fancy wall design in addition to supporting the level.


I'm using the scraped sides of the bricks to give a smooth, almost untextured wall surface for inside the ballroom- the bricks when stacked properly for structural strength will give a nice outline detailing the inner walls - The outer wall is textured, and this ties in with the dual texture of the base blocks.


The Ball Room itself will be situated in the corner of the table.


@Carlo Chaimo

That is really nice. Tower looks fantastic, love that you can fit minis on it at different levels. Ballroom floor looks beautiful. It would be sweet if you could get a to scale piano on that!

Thanks for the comment :)
As for the piano, I would have never considered that until you mentioned it, but I'm sure I have a miniature piano / pencil sharpener around - will hunt for later.

Link to this post 26 Jun 12

HAH! Look what I found!

Any more suggestions etc are not just only welcome but greatly appreciated and wanted! :)
As I said, I would have never thought of the piano!

Link to this post 26 Jun 12

What? It slices, it dices, it sharpens your pencils and even plays Vivaldi? Definitely a brilliant prop.

Having myself constructed several Hirst Arts buildings and having a bunch of blocks still left over, kudos to your work. I personally found both the casting and building process rather daunting, although the end results do look extremely nice. Hope you'll have a good place to store them too and an opponent to play with.

Link to this post 27 Jun 12

Ha! Ha! That is really awesome, it adds character, could be an objective and an obstruction, nice and multi-purpose.

The only things that I can think of that might give additional character to the ballroom would be framed paintings on the wall (maybe from a dollhouse). Did you say that you had a chandelier to put in? If not, that would be sweet, and you could add house rules for swinging from the chandelier and also chopping the rope holding up the chandelier so it falls on people below it.

Really looking great!

Link to this post 04 Jul 12

Update on my Bell Tower, half-way painted and added stained-glass windows by printing a window pattern on a transperancy.
Still building the stair case for the inside, and looking for a suitable bell.

Link to this post 09 Jul 12

Working on a 'City Block' for my Venice table, Still need to finish the two buildings which will be part of it and finish tiling the road, oh and creating more bannister / railings.
I quite literally used up all my normal blocks so I need to do some hardcore casting to restock my supply


Link to this post 09 Jul 12

Sir, you clearly have too much free time on your hands. :)

Has the platform been built on top of a styrofoam piece? Also, what kind of glue are you using? I created my Hirst Arts pieces from dental-grade plaster (damned things were bloody tough to break apart to create ruins), but the PVA glue I used just tended to adhere to the dust on top of the pieces and frequently a block would fall off.

Link to this post 09 Jul 12

I use hydrostone plaster, PVA glue, and this piece is based on a 40mm piece of polystyrene I have had pieces not glue properly when I first started, but now I make sure to wipe away any residual dust to make sure of proper bondage.

I also made a mould using the base inserts for Malifaux 30mm Victorian Streets, so I placed those inside some rings to create sewers.

Link to this post 09 Jul 12

Great!!!!!